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How to Ask for (and Get) a Promotion in Fashion with Brian McIntyre

SFD 003: How to Ask for (and Get) a Promotion in Fashion with Brian McIntyre

May 22, 2017

Getting ahead in your fashion industry career can feel really hard. It’s a super competitive industry and most of us are struggling to just survive.

But what if I told you – no matter your experience level – you could get the raise and promotion you deserve in your fashion design job just by doing an exceptional job and asking for what you want?

In this episode of the Successful Fashion Designer podcast, I’m chatting with Brian, a fashion school graduate who struggled to find his dream job. And once he finally did? He figured out how to ask for exactly what he wanted and had worked so hard for: a pay rate increase and a new title.

Here’s a quick backstory about his journey:

Brian didn’t always know he wanted to work in fashion. He did even discover that he had an interest in the industry until high school, and then he dove head first in. Four years later armed with a degree, he avoided design jobs due to his lack of proficiency in Adobe Illustrator. He finally got an opportunity he couldn’t pass up, so “lied” about his AI skills in the interview and landed the job. He “faked it till he made it” and frantically got up to speed in the software. Since then, he’s used his skills, drive and determination to advance his fashion career and get promoted within his first year as a designer.

You will learn:

  • How curiosity can drive you to success
  • Why you have to ask for what you want (or else you probably won’t get it)
  • Why it’s ok to not keep up with everything that’s going on in the industry
  • How to approach your boss (or your boss’ boss) to get the promotion you want
  • Why defending your designs and perspective is crucial
  • What it’s like working for small vs. large brands

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SFD 003: Full Podcast Transcription

Heidi: Hey everybody, this Sew Heidi, and you’re listening to The Successful Fashion Designer Podcast.

We all know this a fashion industry is brutally competitive and it takes loads hard work to get ahead. The problem is is that everyone’s secretive and tight-lipped about their ways. After working as a designer and educator for over a decade, I wanted to help break down those barriers and bring you valuable knowledge from industry experts. And this show exactly where you’ll find that whether you’re trying to break into the fashion world. Make yourself more marketable, launch your own label or become a successful freelancer we’ll help you get ahead in the cutthroat fashion industry. This is Episode 3 of THE SUCCESSFUL DESIGNER PODCAST and today I’m chatting with Brian McIntyre, who graduated from the school of Art Institute of Chicago in 2012, and received CFDA recognition for his Senior Thesis Collection. He now works at Combe are designing menswear for climate-smart where he got promoted within the first year. And it happened because he asked for it. Brian shares his exact strategies for getting what he wants out of his career and how his curious mind has helped him advance. Before we jump to the interview, I want to remind you of the three templates tutorials and resources I’ve created to help designers like you get ahead in fashion you can find all of them on the Successful Fashion Designer Network at SFDNetwork.com/free to access. The show notes for today’s episodes visit sfdnetwork.com/3. Now onto the interview with Brian. I’d love to just start out with a quick introduction with you, and learn about what got you interested in fashion in the first place?

Brian: Okay, well, I’m originally from the suburbs of Chicago, and honestly, I started sort of my career or I guess my, like what is it, my journey I guess. My journey to find out what I wanted to do. Kind of like MIT at high school. I realized I was really into art and so I was kind of focused on that and I didn’t really know exactly what I wanted to do with that. And honestly Project Runway, actually turned me onto fashion because I was excited, you know, it’s a great show. It’s a reality show and it was fun and I liked what I saw and didn’t really understand necessarily what. How they were making the clothes. But I thought it was pretty cool to relate something that you had drawn, I guess that was the idea I liked. And so I took up a sewing class at Harper Community College, and it was a three-week class, and it was intro to the industrial sewing and, can I swear or no?

Heidi: Yeah! Go ahead, yeah, you can swear.

Brain: I am just wondering in general but yeah, I basically had my ass handed to me from that class. They, I did, I didn’t know anything and everyone in it had at least some base knowledge and felt like, to me and I was just like blindsided by. I didn’t know what bobbin is, let alone a bobbin case like. I don’t know what these things mean even and it was a mess. But by the end of the, you know, probably first two or three days, I was starting to get a hang of it and I think, just the fact that there was this whole world of information out there that I didn’t know, kind of excited me, I was frustrated by the fact that I didn’t know it, and it was like a whole language that, yeah! That I just had no exposure to. I didn’t know that you put right sides together, and you know, so with the wrong side facing you, I couldn’t even comprehend that. And so it was like this are basic principles but for some reason, I just couldn’t wrap my brain around them and that’s kind of ultimately what turns me on to it, so much was my frustration with my lack of understanding it, I guess.

Heidi: So, as you jump into this course, you’re… the realization that you knew, so little was actually one of being the drive to push you forward.

Brian: Yeah, definitely because I find, I found that in the past, I either understood something or I didn’t and you know, I wouldn’t have to study for classes really in school like either I got it and then I got it or I didn’t and this was sort of like i, couldn’t. I don’t know it was different, it was like I didn’t get it but I couldn’t even figure out why I didn’t get it, and that bothered me. So, I was like no, I have to learn this. I have to figure this out, to know that I don’t like it or to know if I like it, you know what I mean? Like it’s sort of, I guess I just had to completely master it before I could determine whether or not I wanted to do it.

Heidi: Yeah… so, that’s interesting. I mean you said that you didn’t like really get interested in the whole and maybe, I’m assuming here but from what you said initially get interested in the whole creative space, until high school, and then once you realize that you love that… and you saw Project Runway and you’re really intrigued you jumped into a class. But nothing ever like younger in your childhood really spawned that interest or even though about fashion as being something you could potentially pursue in life.

Brian: No, not at all. When I was younger I wanted to be like a cartoonist or I wanted to take over the guy who does Garfield. Yeah! So, I just wanted to draw like little caricatures and, yeah, it wasn’t, you know, I felt like going into school and we’re just in the industry itself. Everybody’s like, Oh! I was like, you know… reading Vogue’s when I was 2 and what I wasn’t. Oh, yeah… I was reading comic books and playing video games, like I had no… not no interest in it. Just wasn’t it wasn’t an obsession And that was that was difficult for long while to get over.

Heidi: Yeah… that’s really interesting you make that comment like that, or you feel everybody says, I’ve been reading Vogue since I was 2, love that line and yeah… you do hear that. I’m like oh, I was like making clothes for my dolls when I was kid right I in my sketchbook these different designs or my mom taught me how to sew. So, you already felt like a little bit of a hurdle. Just because it was a new thing that you had thought about?

Brian: Right… and then people knowing like, oh did you see what sensations collection and I’m like, oh.. my god, no, I just look, and of course I think there is a level of responsibility to look at what other people are doing. But when I was first starting, it was overwhelming because it was like I don’t even know who Margiela is. Let alone did I see his collection? Like, it was a lot and I think that part scared me the most because, the sewing is like a technical thing and you can, you know.. do it and do it. Do it, until you get better at it. But, I was, I guess I was always worried that like and my not is interested in this as I should be when reality there’s many different faces of the industry that you can be interested in you know, you don’t have to look at the runway shows. If you’re not interested in that, you can find another, you know, sort of venue in the industry, I think.

Heidi: That’s actually fascinating you say that because sometimes I find myself feeling obliged to keep up with certain things that I’m… am I doing this just because I should be doing it or me doing it because, I’m actually interested in some, if some of it feels forced.

Brian: Right, yeah. I think I even still do that and lately, I’m just like, okay, yeah I will only go look at the shows that I like. I’m curious to see who what they did and because, yeah, otherwise I don’t know we don’t have that much time to be looking at stuff we don’t care about.

Heidi: Yeah… well, I kind of talked to this whole saying that like is a continual recurrence in my life is, you cant know how to do everything you can’t keep up with everything. So, you kind of to pick your things and then run with rows.

Brian: Yeah… that’s I think, that’s the lesson I’m also still learning just sort of realizing like what I’m good at and what I’m not good at and what to do about the things I’m not good at is it something I should work on or is it something I should just have someone else do.

Heidi: Yeah…then, okay so this is interesting. It actually kind of leads right into else, I wanted to talk about. You mentioned a couple of times in what you just said, about being scared like you were like… I don’t know what you’re talking about. I didn’t know what terminology meant and… I, you know from what I know from you track record in your career without theme comes up a lot and so, so let’s talk about you got a degree in fashion and are you okay with I say where if I say where you got your degree?

Brian: Yeah!

Heidi: Okay, so you get your degree in fashion from the School of artists Student in Chicago and… you focus on the creative side of fashion and kind of out on the technology courses. So tell me a little bit about that.

Brian: Well, so at the school it’s it’s an art school and then it’s a fashion program within the art school, and they’re very, very keen to word it that way because, first, you learn well, we learned how to sew, while we learn design and that sort of thing and it’s so integrated that…that convention is like thrown out th window. It’s encouraged to do things unconventionally. Are there other ways to do it and it’s great. It was a great way to… especially for someone who doesn’t know how to sell because, I wasn’t coming in with a preset of you know knowledge or ideas of this is how a garment is made but that was a struggle for a lot of people was because they had to challenge you know their you conceived notions of how to sew. Whereas, me I was like huh, or sure I’ll try it this way or that way and so it was a lot of fun to explore that way but just the way that the school was set up we only got so many electives and for whatever reason the hand-drawn illustration course was separated from the one on illustrator and I guess just oh like an old-world thought that it was more important to take the hand-drawn one which it was a great course and I took several of them but for whatever reason there wasn’t this emphasis on the computer-based ones which having left and you know being in the industry now I find that very concerning and I hope it’s not that way still but, yeah, at the time. It just wasn’t so encouraged or we just weren’t really like I don’t know thinking about it like some kids took the courses and oh, they’re you know their sketches looked a little different or they were you know done on the computer, but it was never I don’t know it was just never focused on really

Heidi: Yeah… okay and so I am gonna quote something next that you wrote in the email so this was really powerful when I read it and, I don’t want this whole topic to be about illustrator but this was like a really big turning point in your career. So we have to touch on hit okay so you say and I quote from the email you wrote me when I moved to NYC in 2013 the realization that Adobe proficiency was mandatory to be even considered for a job. I began to panic I paused my desire to design and worked in production old-school pattern making studio management that modeling pretty much every other job of the industry besides designing. Who would employ a designer with no CS skills meaning Creative Suite adobe illustrator created for Creative Suite I gave up after a year of this. And then randomly, you got a job opportunity that you really wanted. So I want you to tell us exactly what happened in that situation.

Brian: Well, so I’ve been contacted by actually the HR woman at the company and she said I found your profile on some website and you know you seem like you might be a good fit because it was a menswear and there’s not you know so many menswear designers so she reached out to me I went in for an interview and it seemingly was going well. I was like okay this you know this feels good and then of course the question came up and they’re like, oh, so are you and they had sort of glaze over it fast enough that I knew I could do this but they were like oh so are you okay with in illustrator and stuff and you know of course panic I’m like oh I was just like I’m so sick at the time I worked at Starbucks so I was like I’m so sick of that and I just wanted out and whatever I was desperate so I just lied and I was like yeah I’m totally vision all of like the Adobe I didn’t even know what I was saying and of course they believed it because it’s so rare to not know it. That I think they were just like okay yeah, when in reality I was like oh my god I just lied about that and what if this happens and then it did and I fortunately got the job but yeah when I got the job I was like okay I need to now I need to learn this whole program and they said I do know it.

Heidi: And so you said to me and I forgot a prior conversation or an email you said and like my first year within that job is like fake it till I make it.

Brian: Oh, absolutely it was and it kind of was that you pointing it out earlier made me think of it I guess I’ve always sort of done that in fashion because it was just sort of like oh sure I saw that person show and then like run and go look at their show and so that was the same thing I was like yeah, I know illustrator and then it was like buckle down spend weekends nights as much time as possible using illustrator and watching your lovely videos which is how I even came to know you was from that was from this desperate need of I need to learn this I don’t you know I can’t afford a service or anything or take a class and so yeah it was just a lot of a lot of you and me hanging out. You’re not knowing that.

Heidi: I love that comment so this goes back to the whole like fear thing and like getting outside your comfort zone for you to sit in an interview and say yes I have that skill whether it be illustrator whether it be something else. I mean inside your own head I assume you were thinking I can figure this out look I’m not gonna lie about something I can’t figure out but I’ve I grow it fudge this and figure it out but that’s really gay that’s really scary getting outside your comfort zone so talk a little bit about like your mind behind that and that’s like I said earlier that’s something you have a track record for which i think is why you’ve been able to get so far in the industry at such a young age and so tell us a little bit about that.

Brian: Well, yeah, I guess that’s a good point because you know I I don’t want to recommend people go into an interview and lie about everything because that’s not obviously how you’re gonna get ahead but they had me do a project for them for the interview and so he was basically mock-up a catalog page with my own design come up with my own group name and whatnot and so I had done that and it took me an absence amount of time because it was you know I didn’t know what I was doing on illustrator so I went over to my cousins because I knew he had it and I spent the whole day there like well into the next morning you know building this page with one shirt and one pair of pants on it and so I finished that and so I think I sort of knew that like okay I could I can’t I know I can learn this I don’t know it yet so why don’t I like I think maybe that gave me the confidence to sort of lie it was like yeah I know it when in reality I’m thinking like I don’t know it but I know I can know it and so I guess it’s always sort of been that kind of mindset of like if I think I if I have enough exposure to something that I am confident I can learn at then then to me that’s the same as knowing it I guess I don’t know if that makes sense I mean of course not there’s still the time of learning it but in that instance I’m able to confidently say yes I do know it because I know that I am able to learn it I don’t know if that means that

Heidi: No, it does make sense you felt like you were confident in your ability to potentially know it therefore you said. Yeah, I got this.

Brian: Exactly yeah.

Heidi: So what was that first year like where you’re like okay I got this job it’s a design job it’s doing mentors but I want to do and the reason I got it was kind of, because I fudged it a little bit interviews how’d you like how did your co-workers know did you were you hiding stuff or how’d that go?

Brian: I definitely hit it as best I could. I did tell one friend who I was you know ended up being pretty close with like six months in I was like hey you know like I didn’t know illustrator before I got this job and they were just sort of like surprised and like what and like I don’t think they really believed it because that’s I think it’s just not very common that people my age don’t know illustrator anymore so they were just like what oh yeah like I wasn’t that good at either I was like no literally I I didn’t know it at all and but beside from that person I did try to hide it from people and I would you know maybe just be sure not to ask too many questions because I don’t know it’s I don’t recommend it I do recommend learning something before you say you know it but because yeah a lot of the time it’s like you want to ask a question but you’re not sure if that’s a dumb question or a good question so it was a lot of googling like I said it was a lot a lot of your videos and yeah I think my boss always secretly kind of you know but, he was very patient and he was great so I was fortunate in that regard but yeah it was it was his best I couldn’t trying to conceal it.

Heidi: Yeah, so okay so this is, this first job that you kind of got your foot in the door this is what is considered your first like design job in the industry is that correct?

Brian: Yeah I would say so.

Heidi: Okay, yeah. And so about a year into that job you got a pretty good or I’m not sure the size of promotion I don’t necessarily mean monetarily but just in terms of like your role your responsibility your position within the company. So that’s pretty quick I think for just getting into the industry and your first job as a quote-unquote designer so tell us a little bit about how that all happened and how you were able to secure a promotion so quickly.

Brian: Well, so the company they sort of reluctantly hired me and again my boss was amazing and he was the one who believed in me and pushed them to hire me but they were concerned because my background had only been for high-end or small designers small studios and this was corporate this was huge you know they were like they point-blank said to me in the interview you know it’s going to be a lot of paperwork it’s a lot of like sitting at a desk and this sort of thing and I was like no, no like I I’m still interested I’m still interested but they were worried that I wouldn’t like it once I started and so my boss pushed for it and so they did hire me but it was reluctantly and I was hired in in an assistant position and I guess I don’t know just my I did what I always do when I don’t know something I have to know it and so I completely consumed myself with work and in corporate and just learning the ins and outs of everything and just sort of asserting myself as a key player on my team and I would say within six to nine months it was it was evident that I was I was a key player on the team and I felt like people were coming to me for answers over you know my boss or something and so I was like okay this is like I’m no longer an assistant you know I’ve I started in as an assistant I don’t disagree with that but I was like but I’m not assistant anymore. I’m associate like I was functioning at that level and I just felt like I yeah that I my title and my role were not matched and so reviews were like I said this is probably nine months and ten month and I knew reviews were coming because I started right at the time of review so my one year was right around when they were coming so I was like alright you know I mean I know what I want to get out of this and it was a lot of conversation with my parents it’s not like I came up with this on my own but I you know I realized I can’t I can’t go into this review expecting to get a raise without them having any knowledge that that’s what I’m expecting because you know unless I ask for it unless I make them make it aware to them that this is what I’m thinking this is where I’m at then it’s not really fair to me it’s not really fair to them for me to assume that they’re going to read my mind you know so I made a meeting request with my boss’s boss just to talk to her about it and kind of say like hey you know, I think like what I’m doing on well of course the thinker and that sort of thing and then just to say like I think my role and my title or mismatched and you know how much I’m getting paid and how much ya doing are mismatched and I think she really appreciated it the conversation was it went well and she said she would consider it or keep it in her mind come review time and yeah I think it was to my benefit because then come review time I did get the raise and the promotion so.

Heidi: So the whole thing of that is that you want something you have to ask for it?

Brian: Right and I think that’s like a lesson I’m still learning it in my personal life everyday but yeah it’s like people can’t read your mind so if you don’t tell them how you’re feeling then like how are they gonna know.

Heidi: And you took what I would say a move required some courage and he sort of you skip your boss and you went to his boss I believe that’s the gender right you hit your boss colonial and then you went to the woman above him and why did you choose to do that and like how did you feel about that moment that could feel like oh my jumping removed my boss’s head am i throwing him in a race or something?

Brian: I guess I felt like in that moment well so it all sort of was sparked by I remember they hired a new associate to our team and for whatever reason when they said like oh this is the new associate, blah, blah. Like something clicked in my brain and I was like I can’t like they’re hiring new people above me but I should be that person and I was just like so the second they hired her I was like no I can’t and she’s lovely I totally love her but it was nothing against her it was just like I felt like that’s what’s gonna happen at reviews like they’re not gonna they’re not paying attention to you unless you raise your arm and say hey what about me and so when they hired her it clicked and I think that afternoon I had already emailed her my boss’s boss and I did that because I knew I had his support but I also knew he didn’t have as much as much control over it he didn’t get to decide if I got a raise or not so and I knew I had his support and so I felt like part of me was a little worried like am I going over his head is he gonna be offended if he finds out and I just thought like no because I can be honest and speak to him you know if he comes to me and says hey why did you do this I can honestly give him an answer I’m not doing it to be shady or to be you know sketchy but I also know you only have so much control over it and I also know I have your support. So it kind of felt like what would be the point of talking to him other than like you know it’s the same thing as like I could talk to my parents and show them my designs but like either just gonna say they look nice but they can’t do much about it but so I guess that’s why I felt like this sort of that’s what gave me the drive when they hired that new associate and then what made me comfortable enough was I think just having my bosses supported already.

Heidi: Because at some point you just have to go to the person the decision-maker the person is writing the check.

Brian: Exactly, yeah,

Heidi: You can’t rely on your message to be relayed through your boss because things get lost in translation.

Brian: Exactly and I’m sure he’s trying to get a raise too so it’s like you know I didn’t want somebody else to be fighting my fight so I was like no I can’t because then if I didn’t get what I wanted would I blame him would I blame her what I you know what I mean so I was like you know why don’t I just cut to the chase and go straight to the source and that way if I don’t get what I want then I know I did everything I could.

Heidi: Yeah and you said to me and I just want to bring this up because it really resonated with me and a prior conversation we had before this chat you said that had happened to you before in jobs where you had been like looked over and you hadn’t gotten what you wanted and you realize it was because you hadn’t asked for it and you said to me something to the extent of I didn’t want that to happen again because I knew I would the only place I could blame was myself.

Brian: Oh yeah and almost every previous fashion job I had, I my mindset was just do good they don’t keep working be the best worker possible and you’ll get rewarded for it and unfortunately I don’t mean it in a pessimistic way because I’m not at all but unfortunately that’s just not how it works because people everyone has their own life in their own things that they’re mind is on and so unless you unless you point it out to them like hey I’m doing a good job over here you know in an appropriate way but unless you do that they’re not they’re not gonna notice or they’re not gonna go out of their way or it’s very rare that they will I think and so in my previous jobs I had a lot of anger towards my bosses because they were reading my mind or they weren’t rewarding me for the things that I felt like I should be rewarded for when in reality you know, if you do all these things that go unnoticed yeah that’s like good to keep things moving along but then don’t be resentful that people aren’t noticing them because you’re doing them so they go unnoticed if that makes sense like.

Heidi: Yeah.

Brain: Oh yeah I would maintain the studio and keep it you know immaculate and do all these things so she wouldn’t have to and this was my job in Chicago so she wouldn’t have to worry about them but then but then she wasn’t even aware that I was doing all those things and it caused a lot of resentment in me and I just like regret that now because I see you know it makes more sense to me now why she didn’t see the things that I was doing.

Heidi: Yeah and it you know it’s interesting because it kind of comes full circle with this whole theme of the conversation of like putting yourself outside your comfort zone and getting a little bit scared and doing things that that are a little bit fearful but it’s you know going to your boss or going to the boss above your boss and saying hey here’s what I’m doing that’s a scary thing to do and at the same time if you don’t do that you’re staying in your comfort zone but then you wind up just getting frustrated so there’s this balance of like what I rather be frustrated. I resent it feel resentment towards these people because I’m not getting what I want or would I rather like make myself a little bit uncomfortable but have this interaction and then as a result get this positive benefit from it and if I don’t get that benefit at least they’re aware and I know that I try my best to let them know what I’m doing.

Brain: Yeah I that’s like completely yet because yeah I just I think sort of maybe we kind of live in this culture that encourages the like they’re like just stay quiet and you’ll get what you deserve and it’s like it’s just not it’s not healthy I don’t find to be so bottled up it’s like if something bothers you or if you or if you like something you know then say it so tell the person that you like and tell the person and I think it’s just sort of like breaking that mindset of of like yeah I don’t know is it I don’t know like polite culture maybe it is I don’t know I don’t know the extra like what it is but yeah it’s a lot of just being honest and being open and yeah it’s scary to talk to my boss but like you said it’s so have that resentment maybe because I can I can say this because I had it do you have it it’s so much worse because then it’s all you talk about and I thought you think about it’s like when you’re on that person.

Heidi: Well, so it’s interesting you bring this up because you made the comment just there about if you like something to say it and so this kind of shifts the whole conversation but we can touch on it for a minute because I think it’s a really interesting space within the fashion industry and and you obviously went to art school so you probably experienced this a lot old fashion schools in an art school but experienced this a lot but like going through a critiques and going through reviews and taking constructive feedback but then if you like what you did and you like defend it you know say.

Brian: Yeah.

Heidi: And you and then in the real you come into the real world you have to do that in front of meetings and line reviews and presentations and you have to say you know what okay I understand your perspective on this but here’s why I did it this way and here’s why I still think it’s a really strong valid option and if someone says they don’t like it don’t just say okay we’re moving on to the next design if you really believe.

Brain: Yeah…

Heidi: You have to defend it but that can be a scary thing too and it gets easier over time but…

Brain: Right…

Heidi: And so that translates very well into if you want something ask for it if you believe in something defend it.

Brain: Stand up for it. Yeah because and I also think the message you send if you don’t you know if they say oh yeah I don’t really like that being that green okay then you just keep going then that just tells people like I don’t really care either like you know like you decide for me because I don’t care and it’s just I don’t know I think that’s such a bad message and then, if that is the case if you don’t care then why are you doing it you know then you need to find something you do care about.

Heidi: I something I hear from a lot of people and this is my personal experience I worked for my first job in the industry was for a pretty small brand not quite as small as your experience not one on wine but pretty small we still manufactured overseas but you know we didn’t have a whole separate team for trims and a whole separate team for team for textiles you know we kind of did it all ourselves and so you know what’s your perspective and take on getting experience where you do get exposure to the whole process versus some of these really big corporate gigs where you maybe are responsible and I’m not saying this is your position it could be I don’t know but where you have your five tasks or your 10 tasks and that’s what you do day in day out you’re very tiny piece of the puzzle and you have so many people that are creating that whole puzzle versus a smaller company you you’re involved in the creation of the whole puzzle in every single piece in part.

Brain: That’s definitely still something I’m learning because it’s yeah it’s so it was a big challenge when I first started to not do other people’s jobs and to realize why I shouldn’t be doing it and because I was just so used to doing everything where was you know I was the assistant so I was you know development production trims I was all of that and so part of I’m still trying to I guess really balance that or fine what makes me happiest because there’s an element to that what that I think is beneficial but there’s also there’s also something to learn about being in a role where I’m at now where you know I do have maybe more than more than five but I do have my set of tests and I shouldn’t be doing other people’s works because it messes the flow of everything and it’s just it’s not I don’t know there’s something to learn there still I think and I don’t know that I have the answer but I think I think it’s definitely worth people exposing themselves to both because yeah because you can learn a lot about yourself and about just the industry I think.

Heidi: Yeah, know it’s great insights and okay so I want to wrap with a question did I ask everybody at the end of the podcast and it is, what is one question you always wish people would ask you about working in fashion but they don’t usually ask?

Brian: Oh, that’s interesting…

Heidi: It’s the idea of like what do you love talking about in your job in your career in the industry and you find that people don’t ask you that about that like if you go out to cocktails or you’re hanging out with a group of friends who maybe don’t work in fashion you’re like I wish you’d be more curious about this part of my job or my life and…

Brain: Yeah…

Heidi: Talking about that you find other people aren’t really asking you about.

Brian: Well I guess maybe not people I don’t know I feel like I want my friends who don’t know it to see it as the same because I have friends who work in banking and when I when I hang out with them it’s like I feel like an alien there because I and I just want them to be like to understand that like my job isn’t so different than yours like yes it is but also no it isn’t like every job is the same kind of at the end of the day and I don’t know I just kind of I want I just want people to like I wish people could be like a fly on my shoulder for a day and like see what I do because it’s not I don’t know we I’m sure you get it all the time when people hear that you’re a designer the first thing they say is oh can you make me a dress and it’s like no I can’t and I’m not going to but yeah I don’t know I guess for people that are just not see it as such like a strange profession because it’s not that unusual I mean it’s definitely different but it’s not so different I want people to realize.

Heidi: And that whole alien comment is really interesting to me and one thing and I don’t know if this is something experience but sometimes I think people are like oh you’re designer like you just frolic in fabric and clash is all day.

Brian: Yeah, yes, that’s exactly and it’s like no it’s like a real industry that like functions maybe not as well as they could but like it’s a real thing.

Heidi: That was great and thank you so much Brian this was really phenomenal to chat with you and learn about what you’re doing and how you’ve gotten where you’ve gotten. If people want to find out more about you is there any way they can do that anywhere they can find you online.

Brian: I am currently trying to rework my website so not really unless they want to I mean no not really I’m like my Instagram has nothing to do with.

Heidi: Okay, that’s okay. Thank you for listening to episode three of the successful fashion designer podcast if you’d like to learn more about any of the resources mentioned in this episode visit the show notes at SSDnetwork.com/3 and since you made it this far you must have liked the episode if you can take sixty seconds to leave a review on iTunes it helps the show a lot and really makes the podcast easier for people to discover it’s easy to do and I’d really appreciate it visit sfdnetwork.com/review to leave your rating and thanks for your support and help.

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